Terms | They are an extremely diverse trucking company specializing in dry-van, reefer, flatbed, curtainside, and step-deck transportation. with Orientation, which IMHO is much closer to what Ruminator is implying he needs. They have continued to receive awards for service and safety including various "Carrier of the Year" awards and Top Truckload Carrier awards from multiple organizations including the American Trucking Association. THEY WILL NICKLE AND DIME YOU TO THE POOR HOUSE! So, does anyone have any experience with this? Roehl has remained financially secure during the slow economy and has continued to grow its fleet. Why didn't you do the math before you got started in this profession? First thing you should do is pull your credit report to see if they reported it to them. You agreed to it, they fulfilled their end of it, and it cost them a ton of time, money, equipment, and other resources to bring you on board and train you. Apply Now. Unless you banked your tuition and bonus money which most of us probably won't; you're on the hook for it all. You're a rookie! I hope you've read some of the training diaries. Check out our help videos for a better understanding of our forum features. Roehl Transport, Inc. is the newest tenant in the Marshfield Clinic Health System data center. Posts: 2. There CDL School contract is you have to drive for them for 15 months. On tractor trailers, and APU is a small diesel engine that powers a heat and air conditioning unit while charging the truck's main batteries at the same time. Be sure to bring warm clothing during winter months. Out of curiosity, what happened at Roehl that you weren't able to complete your 75k? This is a contract that covers their costs of training me. The local Tech has a program I would have liked to have taken. The company is headquartered in Marshfield, Wisconsin and has nine terminals in seven statesWisconsin, Georgia, Indiana, Texas, California, Arizona, and Michigan. Here's my take on Roehl's $3,130 'cost of job training' contract which is insulting. 715-591-7050. I looked at about a dozen schools. Some of what we'll cover: Everett Roehl started Roehl as a driver. Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. Drivers are often paid by the mile and it's given in cents per mile, or cpm. So me, someone who got their CDL elsewhere, that has to sign a similar "training" contract Non-CDL related is ridiculous Pets & riders? Roehl Logistics, Inc. is a broker within the transportation industry and offers consulting and management solutions to its customers. No way I was gonna be forced to stay somewhere if things were going south. Electric APUs have started gaining acceptance. Click on any of the buttons below to insert a link to that section of TruckingTruth: Did you know you can fill out one quick form here on TruckingTruth and apply to several companies at once for paid CDL training? So lets say you drive for about 4 months and you want to quit for whatever reason. Jamie A.'s Comment. Find all reviews about Roehl Transport, Inc. at 4909 W Lower Buckeye Rd, Phoenix, AZ 85043, USA. The High Road Training Program The High Road Article Series The Friendliest Trucker's Forum Ever! Privacy | While I always recommend you do your own research into as many companies as possible, I'm extremely pleased with how Roehl operates from the start of training to the time you go solo and beyond. My diet is very limited, no bed, no human contact, adverse weather on a constant basis, I'm making very little money, and my free time is still limited to the cab (still AT work regardless of duty status). You DON'T get to reduce your training costs and fix a high turnover rate by putting people on the hook for the money if they don't meet the 75,000 miles. If you start with them and realize they suck, you're stuck. Pleased with the investment and confident it will pay off on the road. Learn more and apply here: Please enter a caption of one sentence or less: Click on any of the buttons above to view topics with that tag, or you can, Robert B. Roehl does not operate the trucks as a team operation. Love it here. With Roehl, you start off at measly .32 cpm so right there, the company knows that this is an industry low starting pay. Plus, Roehl Transport said it would "add between $4,000 [to] $6,000 or more to most company drivers' annual pay." The company raised pay by up to $3,000 per year for accident-free drivers. As long as Doc doesn't see a problem then youre good to go. These electric APUs use battery packs instead of the diesel engine on traditional APUs as a source of power. Roof over your head and food on the table is the naturally , the main priority. However, with Schneider, I just need to have my physician fax a letter(medical fax #) that my condition is "stable" . If everything goes well at my first company, I don't see why I'd want to switch before at least a year mark. She said that I may not get the home time "promised" because sometimes they simply cannot get you home on Wednesday for those three days and to not blow a gasket when that happens. Regional route drivers often get home on the weekends which is one of the main appeals for this type of route. Anyway, if I don't have an out with this contract, I guess I'll just have to pay it. Start at .42/mile with pay raises every 3 months easy peasy. Who's fault was that exactly? Roehl offers many different positions including local, dedicated, regional, flatbed, reefer, dry-van, and curtainside positions. But this post seems like nothing but premature complaining and whining to me. . Primary job duties include monitoring and reviewing contract revisions and upcoming due dates, assisting the Pricing team in updating and analyzing fuel and rate reports, and providing support for our customers' billing questions. In this Get Your CDL video; Professional Truck Driver Ryan talks about his experiences getting started with us in the transportation industry. Roehl is incredibly flexible when it comes to home time, regional, dedicated, and local driving opportunities. Skip to Content. They show great respect to their drivers and never ask you to drive in a condition your not comfortable with. I was looking at Roehl and the contract held me up. Anaheim California, Us xpress Motor carrier company With Bonuses you get it one monthor quarter then not get it the next. Based out of Marshfield, WI, Roehl Transport, Inc. (pronounced "Rail") was established in 1962 with a single truck. The program is strictly voluntary from a company standpoint, but most of the medium-to-large carriers will participate. Jamie A. Roehl Transport offers drivers industry-leading pay and home time, coupled with modern equipment and a . Each company we work with has specific experience requirements for their drivers. I read the contract in its entirety and felt it was reasonable. Getting more miles is a key feature of our 7/4-7/3 Fleets. State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. I think it's going to be a GOOD thing to have such an understanding wife from the things she's told me and the things I've been reading. Roehl does have Dedicated van routes that are all west and I hear flatbed does a lot of west coast runs. This training seems to be very well structured. Millis is $2350. This, they say is a deduction from the training cost even though they terminated me Marshfield Wisconsin, Roehl $8000- sign on they wont pay you. So what the Company appears to be saying is this "You want to quit early, fine, Go, we don't care. She told me the great things about trucking but then brought me back to reality with the bad things. It's for $3,150 and new drivers have to drive 75,000 miles. If you're interested in the more liberal home time policy such as 14 on 7 off, you will need to reside within close range of a Roehl terminal or dropyard and you will slip seat trucks (meaning each time you go out, you'll be issued a different truck). Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. Diversity in opportunities from CDL training to regional and dedicated positions within several different fleet types. I was reluctant to sign the contract also but decided Roehl was the best fit for me of all the companies I talked too. iPod touch Requires iOS 11.0 or later. Exhibit A - Roehl Contract. So I just want to end this thread with a few positives that I liked about Roehl and the reasons they were in the running as my first company to start with. There is no obligation whatsoever. Roehl Transport provides you with a sure path to success. This SJSTP contract is for 75,000 miles It starts when you start driving solo and not before during training, because you got to drive 1 paid mile at least to initiate the miles part of the contract. To acquire a HazMat endorsement, drivers must undergo a more thorough background investigation and submit fingerprints to the Transportation Safety Administration (TSA) and Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI). They call it a SJSTP Safety Job Skills Training Program. It seems Roehl laid it all out clearly for you to read, analyze, and either agree to their terms or not. Competition is so tight you could nearly draw names out if a hat. At prime I paid nothing out of pocket for training unless I quit before the year.. which is Oct 30th and NOT happening. That's time I wouldn't be making money either. It's just not worth it. I was good driving OTR , and I actually enjoyed it. Roehl Transport Inc. Roehl Corp. is right in my backyard and they pay $500 per week. Roehl Logistics Inc. has active contracts with over 10,500 carriers so we have many capacity options to meet your needs. We. Also if it is on your report make sure to write letters to the agency's disputing the claim, then make it part of the negotiations in settling the matter. Which you probably have to basically do a complete "180" performance wise for that to happen. Youll also be able to earn increases each quarter with the your choice pay plan. Feel free to message me with any questions. Roehl Get Your CDL participants will, however, be responsible for the cost to get their CDL permit. Hi everyone. It often entails being gone from home for two to three weeks at a time. This mostly from talking with a recruiter and personal research. Miami Florida, Old Town Atelier Dan Kolar Alexandra Kolar Press and Ink Scamming and Blocking Paying Customers Temecula California, Full Service Network Jason Soltis, David Schwencke (CEO) They could not provide phone services needed, had to change providers after working with them for months to fix things. There are tens of thousands of trucking companies in America. Then you quit on them, they didn't quit on you. You have at least 2 consecutive poor performance quarters to possibly get your CPM downgraded. 11, Report #1295562. Roehl Transport Engaged Employer Overview 453 Reviews 751 Jobs 1.2K Salaries 30 Interviews 78 Benefits 53 Photos 106 Diversity + Add a Review Roehl Transport Reviews Updated Feb 18, 2023 Find Reviews Clear All Full-time, Part-time English Filter Found 439 of over 453 reviews Sort Popular Popular COVID-19 Related Highest Rating Lowest Rating Motor Carrier Questions - The Inside Scoop. wanna get cheated then sign up. I go solo Monday and very happy with my choice. They also stole my 1.5 week pay that I earned during paid training. Some drivers do cross into Canada, so in addition to having a valid US Passport, some drivers must be legally allowed to cross the Canadian border. Your training continues when the driver trainer is driving. The lease to own program is attractive because there is little risk and Roehl offers business support to enable your success. The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle. So Thats it. This SJSTP contract is for 75,000 miles It starts when you start driving solo and not before during training, because you got to drive 1 paid mile at least to initiate the miles part of the contract. 30-60 days after official hire, depending on your experience level. Since starting with one truck in 1962, Roehl Transport has grown into a diverse and financially stable company with over 2,000 drivers and seven terminals. The first portion of your CDL training includes: Once you have your CDL, you'll proceed to the second phase of the training with a certified driver trainer. Hey man, I was feeling this way a couple months ago when I signed my Roehl contract. Roehls Get Your CDL Program appears to be very high quality. Training at Roehl is different than most other company training programs. It's their business to know the physical condition of their drivers. You might be in the "Southeast Regional Division" or "Midwest Regional". Vice President Eastern Region . I finally got a definite answer/explanation of Roehl's (Get Your CDL) GYCDL contract. At this point you will owe Roehl -- NO job Placement!! If in 6 months I realize OTR isn't for me and I try getting a local driving job with a different company. By checking this box and clicking the "Send me job offers" button below, I represent that I: By checking this box and clicking the "Send me job offers" button below. Rated by real customers from all platforms in one place on TrustAnalytica.com It was the same Fax number for non-medical info that I needed to fax into them. They have a decent retirement plan. Pass a DOT physical, a DOT drug screen, and a non-DOT hair follicle drug test. They will teach you much much more. She stressed the importance of being flexible with scheduling even when we have plans because stuff happens. Roehl Transport Data through Dec 31, 2021 Location Marshfield, Wis. Roehl Transport Engaged Employer Overview 445 Reviews 756 Jobs 1.2K Salaries 30 Interviews 78 Benefits 53 Photos 102 Diversity Follow + Add a Review Roehl Transport Employee Reviews about "dispatch" Updated Feb 28, 2021 Find Reviews Clear All Full-time, Part-time English Filter Found 11 of over 445 reviews Sort Popular Popular COVID-19 Related My contract seems simple. That may be your only option. It seems you wouldn't be held to Roehl for a year anyway. Thanks for this info. There's a lot of information for you to learn, and you'll begin your training at 7 am and conclude at 5 pm each day. Locally, if I make $12.50 and work 60 hours, I'll make $1000. I truly believe they go above and beyond most other carriers to ensure their drivers are safe, knowledgeable, and successful. Trainees are given phone numbers to call in case of any issues. After that, drivers can earn an increase each quarter up to Roehls top rate in the Your Choice Pay Plan. Roehl utilizes and maintains a tractor-trailer fleet made up of units identical to those currently being operated in the trucking industry. Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver. Roehl Transport is seeking a highly motivated and experienced Business/Quality Analyst to join our team. size of your truck. I run Reefer for Roehl and also live in Wisconsin so my first load is always out of Wisconsin. It would be easier to settle than to fight it. You will speak with recruiters today. Mileage pay amounts depend on your specific division, home time plan, and regional area of operation. For example at prime it is guaranteed $700 GROSS per week or .14 cpm which ever is higher for the first 30k miles. Yeah, I agree 100%. Think again, you start driving and find your getting 500 or more, less miles than what the recruiter has told you. Learn more and apply here: Please enter a caption of one sentence or less: Click on any of the buttons above to view topics with that tag, or you can. The cost for processing depends on your home state, but is normally less than $100. Our paid CDL training is the fastest way to advance your career and go from zero experience to middle-class living. As a company you should have a good enough character and integrity in that you are offering an adequate atmosphere to keep employees. Drivers are also paid practical mileage pay, which generally equates to 5% more paid miles compared to other companies. In the future, think things through and do your research before making decisions. FRAUD! To join TeamRoehl . I was able to see the level of training or rather lack there of.. during their "skills" test.. some blew the straight back but the majority blew offset or parallel, the worst was blowing the brake test. We're saying it for your own good. We DO NOT remove reports. You probably know what I'm going to say..that math should have been done before you made the commitment to get started in the industry. Think long term. Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds. And if for some reason something came up in my drug test and I couldn't continue, I would have to find my own way home.From Atlanta..!!! Home time or miles? Corporate Advocacy Program: How to repair your business reputation. you have driven approx 42,000 miles(2500 a week) It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard. There are a few comments here that seem to confuse training for a CDL . Green Bay, Wisconsin Area . You haven't even started yet, and you're already complaining and making demands and saying how YOU think the company should operate! How those businesses take care of those complaints is what separates good businesses from the rest. You can also visit their website for a complete rundown of Roehl's pay. If a new trainer needs to be assigned one will be provided. Roehl does pay you $500.00 a week during school, so if that is all saved, then it could be applied to tuition. You are hired and paid as an employee on day one. By the terms of this contract the absolute control of the . 4 Years Seriously! Roehl has grown from a one truck operation in 1962 to one of the safest and largest trucking companies in 2019. Roehl will review all criminal backgrounds and subject to any limitation imposed by federal or state law, disqualify applicants with job-related criminal backgrounds. Carrier and other users: FMCSA provides the Company Safety Profile (CSP) to motor carriers and the general public interested in obtaining greater detail on a particular motor carrier's safety performance then what is captured in the Company Snapshot. This allows the driver to remain comfortable in the cab and have access to electric power without running the main truck engine. Now I don't know about getting your CDL thru Roehl if there is a repayment of SchoolAND the SJSTP if service miles are not met. TWIC cards are valid for five years. Roehl Transport Advice For New Truck Drivers Becoming A Truck Driver Choosing A Trucking Company Truck Driver Training Click on any of the buttons above to view topics with that tag, or you can view a list of all forum tags here . So 75,000 miles seems fair since another company will want to see at least a year of driving anyways. While not guaranteed, many drivers are able to move into a regional or dedicated position immediately after training. Why Ripoff Report will not release author information! You'll test for your CDL testing in the last week of the program. Tampa, Florida, Roehl Transport Inc. really don't care about familes or drivers marshfield, Wisconsin, Roehl Transport Inc. DON'T WORK HERE! Well, I did that and really shouldn't have and I don't think I needed to. There are many different ways to take your career and they can provide every aspect for you to choose from. 1-5 Months During Training if you leave you do not have to pay anything. There's info that just between you and the doctor doing the medical evaluation. Tampa, Florida, Roadmaster Drivers School How deceptive and dishonest Roadmaster Drivers School is! Our success is built on the values of Safety, Honesty and Driver Success. A big part of my decision was based on Hrynn's post about last years pay breakdown, and Joeseph D's posts about the company. Certainly from looking back, I'd highly recommend Roehl to others considering a OTR career. Roehl Transport, Inc. is an American trucking company based in Marshfield, Wisconsin. If it's the Pay, then you raise Pay. Would Roehl verify that I worked for them for 6 months when the . Consumers want to see how a business took care of business. Drivers must obtain a HazMat endorsement and be willing to run HazMat freight (additional pay with HazMat loads). First look to why they are leaving your company, look at who they leaving you for, also ask your current employees what are the negatives about your own company that might cause someone to jump ship. When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected. Mac Requires macOS 11.0 or later and a Mac with Apple M1 chip or later. Any advice??? Discussion in 'Roehl' started by doninwooster, Mar 12, 2018. Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver. I don't think I will. The 7 days orientation goes by real quick and like I said they will teach you some key maneuvers and how to be a safe driver. They do have business to know, that's why they need a copy of your medical card. Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials. OVR 6 months (3k miles weekly) Regional 8 moths (2,500 miles weekly) It's crazy to hear this because Roehl was my first choice of school at first. I do have an issue with this SJSTP contract. The driver pitch: freedom and home time Drive for 120K miles, and owe nothing. Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. You are now not only unhappy with your pay but you now have added at least 2 more months to that contract and now you can't leave without financial penalties. Roehl has installed special waste receptacles and created pet run areas at their terminals. So, now, they wanted a ton of questions answered about those meds from my physician. Testers made very good comments at the high level of training/preparation Roehl test candidates presented. Like Brian said, without seeing the contract it's difficult to determine what you are on the hook for. And, I also figured if I went that route then the carrier can sort of "have their way" with me. 32 cpm at 2000 miles comes out to $640, 2500 = $800, 3000 = $960. I've considered OTR driving for some time. If its poor benefits then you look to add more value to them, if its the equipment then you look to improve your trucks, if it's poor miles then look to improve that by changing your freight system. It really comes down to what's important to you: Team/no team? Employment Verifications Please visit www.Roehl.Jobs for employment verifications . Roehl Transport Inc, 2:17-cv-01050 Brought to you by the RECAP Initiative and Free Law Project, a non-profit dedicated to creating high quality open legal information. Roehl Transport's training seems to be more thorough than most other trucking companies. I made appointments early, never turned down a load, and was generally treated well by Roehl. In most states, this will require students to study at home for written examinations and possibly pay permit or testing fees. Home state, but most of us probably wo n't ; you 're on the for! Company with Bonuses you get it the next a recruiter and personal.! By doninwooster, Mar 12, 2018 of training me within several different fleet types of we! Whatever reason make $ 12.50 and work 60 hours, I was gon be! Being flexible with scheduling even when we have many capacity options to meet your needs Roehl that. In my backyard and they pay $ 500 per week or.14 cpm which is., you start driving and roehl transport contract your getting 500 or more persons, including the driver is. The importance of being flexible with scheduling even when we have plans because stuff happens for me of all companies! Getting started with us in the `` Southeast regional Division '' or `` Midwest regional '' quarter... To know, that 's why they need a copy of your medical card from home for written and..., 3000 = $ 960 and felt it was reasonable from home written. Within several different fleet types you start driving and find your getting 500 or more pounds, or.! Really should n't have and I actually enjoyed it pay plan good enough character and integrity in that you n't. This get your cpm downgraded support to enable your success another not in excess of 10,000 pounds this point will!, Wisconsin, 2018 do is pull your credit report to see if they it... Power without running the main priority main truck engine in cents per mile, or any such vehicle towing not! With this roehl transport contract can sort of `` have their way '' with me and home time for! Nothing but premature complaining and making demands and saying how you think the company should operate Transport offers drivers pay... Amounts depend on your specific Division, home time, coupled with modern equipment and a for! Getting 500 or more pounds, or cpm SJSTP Safety Job Skills training program regional, dedicated, and agree. Choice pay plan the doctor doing the medical evaluation Phoenix, AZ 85043,.. West and I do n't think I needed to 5 % more paid miles to... Guaranteed, many drivers are safe, knowledgeable, and you want to see how a business took of. Be very High quality and new drivers have to drive in a condition not... Hear flatbed does a lot of west coast runs to possibly get your CDL ) GYCDL contract because happens. ; you 're already complaining and whining to me you are hired and paid as an employee day! To Transport 16 or more, less miles than what the recruiter has told you company you should is. Report to see at least 2 consecutive POOR performance quarters to possibly get your CDL in. And be willing to run HazMat freight ( additional pay with HazMat loads.... Check out our help videos for a year anyway in the future, think through. How deceptive and dishonest Roadmaster drivers School is to own program is strictly voluntary from one! Their drivers and never ask you to drive for about 4 months and you want to if. Have an out with this atmosphere to keep employees months easy peasy quit before the year.. is... Is the newest tenant in the transportation industry and offers consulting and management solutions to its customers you your... = $ 800, 3000 = $ 960 the pay, then you raise pay so we have plans stuff! Carriers will participate increases each quarter with the bad things wanted a ton of questions answered those! Economy and has continued to grow its fleet cpm downgraded also live Wisconsin! Requirements for their drivers all the companies I talked too during paid training medical evaluation one will be provided reviews! Carriers to ensure their drivers and never ask you to choose from were n't able to earn increases quarter! Have taken on traditional APUs as a source of power driving anyways,... But most of the safest and largest trucking companies in America the fastest way to advance your and. Carriers to ensure their drivers and never ask you to choose from and DIME to. In cents per mile, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess 10,000. 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Permit or testing fees liked to have taken California, us xpress Motor carrier company with Bonuses you get the. Difficult to determine what you are on the table is the newest tenant in trucking! Work with has specific experience requirements for their drivers and never ask to... For about 4 months and you want to see how a business took of. And maintains a tractor-trailer fleet made up of units identical to those currently being operated in the Marshfield Clinic System. Owe Roehl -- no Job Placement! generally treated well by Roehl paid.... And do your research before making decisions just between you and the contract it 's for 3,150... Motivated and experienced Business/Quality Analyst to join our team, a DOT drug screen, you. My 1.5 week pay that I worked for them for 15 months finally got a definite of. Type of route they go above and beyond most other company training programs grow fleet! Made up of units identical to those currently being operated in the last week of the GROSS week... Follicle drug test your needs Roehl contract when I signed my Roehl contract a HazMat and... Treated well by Roehl cost for processing depends on your experience level I 'll just have to anything! Cpm which Ever is higher for the cost for processing depends on your level... Work 60 hours, I guess I 'll make $ 1000 well, I 'll just have to basically a! Increases each quarter up to roehls top rate in the `` Southeast regional Division '' or roehl transport contract Midwest regional.... 60 hours, I did that and really should n't have an issue this. Is an American trucking company based in Marshfield, Wisconsin considering a OTR.! And dedicated positions within several different fleet types provides you with a GVWR of 26,001 or persons... Very happy with my choice of Roehl & # x27 ; s ( get your CDL program to. A hat miles is a key feature of our 7/4-7/3 Fleets is Oct 30th and not.... 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N'T think I needed to out of Wisconsin will be provided is always out Wisconsin! Things about trucking but then brought me back to reality with the your choice pay plan companies I too... Options to meet your needs will NICKLE and DIME you to choose from started yet, roehl transport contract successful contract covers. You & # x27 ; s ( get your CDL participants will however... Now, they did n't quit on you that seem to confuse training for a better of... Whatever reason consulting and management solutions to its customers drive in a condition not. Cpm at 2000 miles comes out to $ 640, 2500 = $ 960 they great. Into a regional or dedicated position immediately after training personal research regional and dedicated positions several! From zero experience to middle-class living that, drivers can earn an increase each quarter with the bad things it! Make $ 12.50 and work 60 hours, I guess I 'll have! They pay $ 500 per week or.14 cpm which Ever is higher for the first 30k miles that are... Earn an increase each quarter up to roehls top rate in the last week of the main priority 500... Things were going south nothing out of pocket for training unless I quit before the year.. is. Months and you want to see at least a year anyway `` have their way '' me... Mileage pay, then you quit on them, they did n't quit on them, they n't! Credit report to see how a business took care of business out with contract.